Fraser - Is the noise something that comes from the aluminum lower roller? In other words, could at least some of the noise be remedied by simply installing a plastic or carbon fiber lower roller? Or is it that the chain rubs on the actual sides of the guide that causes all the noise? In either case, could the noise be lessened if there was a half mm or so more space between the plates? Also, do you think it would be possible to run a bash guard - something similar in design to those aluminum ones Truvativ made that flared-out away from the frame a little bit - that would clear the rollers?

"A relatively simple $200 product should not show up with its only major structural part twisted in three directions. This made it impossible to run a proper test, as even just getting it mounted and spaced properly was a headache." Frasier, let me get this straight: The guide you tested was messed up out of the box? So this is a review of a broken chain guide? What made you think that it was going to work properly? This is basically the same as testing a bent wheel and saying it wasn't good because the tire rubbed against the frame. Of course it's not going to be good. It's broken. Don't get me wrong: I agree that a $200 part shouldn't show up broken. But that's what RMAs and warranties are for. Any chance we can get another review of this guide with a sample that isn't messed up from the get-go?

From Santa Cruz's Website: What Is APP? In the words of the lead engineer on this project, APP is "a kind of bogus acronym." It means Actual Pivot Point, and since we are an acronym-averse company, those three letters represent both a totally new suspension system and the fact that we don't take our marketing nearly as seriously as we do our engineering. The name "Actual Pivot Point" initially came about as a spoof on "Virtual Pivot Point," and was used in joking reference to our single pivot bikes when we first began working with VPP a decade ago. When it came time to name this new suspension system we were working on, the APP moniker resurfaced, and in spite of our best efforts to come up with something else that accurately described what was going on and sounded cool, the name stuck.

"Niner's latest long-travel 29er, the W.F.O 9, is configured with a 150-millimeter rear axle and a DH shock to handle everything from all-mountain, to all-out park riding." Um, I spy, with my little eye, an RP23 and a QR skewer. Based on this whargarbling "argument" of a post, I betting the next most "controversial" issue we face as mountain bikers will be whether these new-fangled carbon fiber DH frames can actually handle the rigors of DH riding. One side will be someone who says yes, and present reasons why. The other side will be a guy who will tell us a story about how he heard that his friend broke a carbon fiber frame and when it broke it failed catastrophically and, like, he hurt himself and if it was an aluminum frame it wouldn't have happened.

@whipless: You ever looked at how much XTR chainrings cost?

Well, if adding 0.125" to the steerer tube increases stiffness by 30%, then my 1.5 steerer is already 60% stiffer than this new system.

@mnorris122 "About Me: I love dj and xc. i wish i had something along the lines of a Specialized SX." Um, you're saying you wish you weren't a real man?